Trying to light HK500B, incomplete?

    Hi,


    (sorry for writing in English, my German spelling is terrible but I can read it ok)


    I'm trying to get a Petromax HK 500 to work. It looks a little bit different from the ones I've seen before -- I've been told it's an 829B / Benzine / gasoline model, because it misses the spiral pipe on part number 152.


    There's some pictures on http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~bre/petromax.html


    I've since found the top part, i.e. assembly 117, glass chimney 74 and nozzle 3 -- so I thought the lamp would be complete now.


    Looking at the bauplan on http://www.pelam.de/bauplan.html -- I'm wondering if I've got all the parts complete. Is the needle 68 inside the tube 152?


    Arno

    Hi Arno,
    the needdle (68 ) needs to be mountedt on the rod (101) and then assembled with part (104). This equipment has to be located inside the vaporizer (152). Finally the vaprizer has to be closed with the vaporizer nozzel (50). But be carefull, before assembeling its better to check if the thin needle fits into the hole of the vaporizer nozzel (from inside the nozzel). These needle is used foe easy cleaning the vaporizer nozzel.


    fröhliches Leuchten
    Jürgen
    "Die Zukunft sollte man nicht vorhersehen wollen, sondern möglich machen"
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)

    Hi Arno,
    in the Chat, i found out, that your Vaporizer bottom Ventil is leaking (part 193) to exchange this, you have to dismount the Vaporizer,
    and open the part 195 with a big screwdriver, and hold the small tube, where its mountet on with an key. After opening this, you'll find the Ventil 193, a Spring 194 and at the bottom a messing-gaze. All together the parts is the sparepart 196. If all the other parts look ok, just change 193, if they are oxydated and muddy, change the whole part 196. Before mountig everything together again, clean the conic seat at the small tube. After mounting again, the leekness should be solved...

    Hi Brie,
    thats what i also like do know. If you have any other requests, pleas contact me or send me an PM.

    Hi Arno,
    did you succeed with my informations ?(


    fröhliches Leuchten
    Jürgen
    "Die Zukunft sollte man nicht vorhersehen wollen, sondern möglich machen"
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)

    Hallo Arno,


    Je hebt jezelf toch niet opgeblazen he? :aua:


    met je benzine-max.... ;)



    And for our english speaking friends (Joern :D )


    Hello Arno,


    Jou didn't blow yourselve up now did you?


    with your petrol-max

    Hi...


    I've been a bit busy, haven't been able to test further.


    I've done the "bucket" test. The pumpvalve is closed. I'm imagining I'm seeing a small, occasional bubble forming at the base, I may need to replace a lead washer there -- air is not leaking out, but it doesn't look like a perfect seal either. The top of the vaporizer is always blowing air bubbles, independent of the tap/handwheel 111 setting.


    I got some help troubleshooting from another forum member, and it looks like I'm missing some parts.


    I've taken the lamp apart and took some pictures,


    http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~bre/petromax2.html


    So, the needle is missing, and rod 101 looks a little bend.
    I think I also need new lead washers (or silicon substitutes for those).


    Any suggestions?


    Arno

    Hi Brie,
    the Graphite Package 108 should be inside the Mother 113. Have a look inside. If not, you need a new one.
    You should use lead washers, no silicon parts. It's my experiance... The rubber washers make only a sense,
    during the mounting and testing periode, but not for final use. You should have 2 Lead washers 90,
    one lead washer 83 for the Pumpventil, one Ventil 193 for the Carburettor, and the needle 68.

    Zitat

    Original from Brie
    ...., and rod 101 looks a little bend. ....


    I belive that you can reuse this rod, the little bend should not cause any problem.


    But after korrekt mounting of the lead washer, al little part of the lead has to be creept up on the vaporizer tube, caused by the pressure during tightening the vaporizer (plastic deformation of the lead washer). If the washer don't show this deformation, the vaporizer is not tightened enough.


    fröhliches Leuchten
    Jürgen
    "Die Zukunft sollte man nicht vorhersehen wollen, sondern möglich machen"
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)

    Well... I ordered some parts, that arrived today, and had some fun disassembling and reassembling the lamp. I replaced the vaporizer valve, which had not been closing. Put viton washer as a temporary replacement for the lead washer since I will probably be taking the thing apart a few times. Build up pressure, which it keeps, build up 3 atm, dropped the whole thing in a bucket of water and watched for bubbles. No bubbles, good, so it looks like the thing is now closed.


    The needle does not fit on the rod (this is a benzine / gasoline type vaporizer, is that different?) -- might be that the old needle broke off and got stuck. I cleaned the nozzle.


    With about 2,5 atm of pressure, tried to light the flamethrower, which it did on first try... wheeee!


    So, with high spirits, put the back of the lamp together, burned a gasmantle down, and tried to light the lamp -- only to find that the flamethrower is now back to stuttering again. Another bucket test, everything is closed -- build up pressure, which it keeps, the flamethrower will not light.


    Disassembled flamethrower, took a look if anything looked wrong, check all three holes on the flamethrower nozzle, looks like it is ok. It will not light tho, even after repeated tries.


    What can be wrong...? ?(


    Puzzling...

    Hi Brie,


    what do you mean exactly that the flamethrower doesn't light?


    It can be hard to light it with a regular match or gas lighter.
    I prefer a fuel lighter from Zippo, that Storm Lighter flame is NOT be blown so easily.


    Did you clean already the nozzle of the flamethrower? Even a few times?
    Maybe that helps.


    See ya


    Christian

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Orthotiger ()

    Hi Brie,
    there are many possibilities, that the Rapid = Flamethrower does'nt work. First at all what Orthotiger said.
    Secound the nozzle is dirty and closed or the hole is to big and blow the Rapid out by him self.
    The Filter at the end of the Rapid, which is in the Tank, is muddy and so closed. Further more the small tube
    Between Rapid and Filter is muddy and closed, or to deep inside the Rapid, which close him also.
    Be careful, the small tube has a contermother ! So he is heavyly fixed, and many people belive it is solderd.
    This are the explanations which i see, if you light it correktly. They are easy to control, because there will
    be no or too less Petroldust comming out of the Rapid. To find out, if the Nozzlehole is to big, is more difficult.

    I tried to light it by having a holder full of burning spiritus under the rapid, which has a flame that does not blow out easy. The rapid/flamethrower still does not keep burning by itself then, so maybe the tube is blocked or the filter is dirty.


    When emptying the tank out and pouring the petroleum back in the bottle I noticed that the petroleum (which was clear before) is quite dirty -- so the tank may not be very clean inside.


    So that kinda fits with the whole theory of the tube being dirty.


    How do I take the little tube from the Rapid? What would be the best stuff to clean it with? Thinner / Aceton?


    Brie

    Brie



    You can clean it with aceton. But don,t stick any plastic parts parts in there. They melt in the aceton. Wear gloves as well aceton on the skin is not good for your liver.



    before you light the next mantle check that the stream comes out of the nipple in a straight line. This must be the case, if not you have probs. in your Caburettor.



    regards Jonas

    Hi Brie,


    first of all: without lighting the flamethrower, does it spray reasonable amounts of paraffin/petrol? You should see a cloud/haze inside the lamp. If not something is clogged. If the pressure is too high the flame may not burn in front of the flamethrower nozzle but somewhat distant, and extinguish when you remove the lighter. So it is reasonable not to start with too high pressure (try 2 instead of 2.5) though you have to start pumping again sooner.
    As already mentioned, you should check the brass mesh at the bottom of the flamethrower and the tube. Solvents like thinner, acetone or benzine could work but also the sodium hydroxide solution recommended by Joern is worth trying. And needless to say, you should clean the tank, too... ;)


    Regards,



    Aladdin



    P.S. The German "Mutter" should be translated with "nut" in this case... :D And by the way: A very good online dictionary can be found at dict.leo.org. But check the given translations in reverse because some of them do not fit properly.

    :megaphon: Tilley X246-Ersatzteil 707 (Spigot) gesucht!

    The "naked" lamp -- just the frame and the tubes, without the glass or the hood -- is now closed when I put pressure on it and dip it in a bucket of water.


    When I open the vaporizer-foot-valve by turning the handwheel, with the vaporizer / carburator not preheated, a fine "beam" of liquid petroleum sprays out nozzle nr. 50. Closing the valve also closes down the stream of liquid.
    However -- I've not been able to screw the needle on the rod, for some reason it does not seem to fit?


    I've put some aceton in the tank which came out brown, so I guess the inside of my tank is covered with muck and it would need cleaning.


    If I strip all the tubes, could I fill it up with aceton and leave it overnight? Would this damage the pump valve? Are there rubber / plastic parts in there? I've not been able to loosen this or take it out, and it looks properly closed so if I don't have to I would rather not open it.


    How would I clean the inside of the rapid / flamethrower tube?
    Is it possible to take the filter off, or to disconnect the tube from the nozzle?


    Brie

    Aladdin,


    It sprays a fine cloud of petroleum mist, but it blows out the flame, and does not catch fire. What is the optimal pressure for lighting the Rapid Preheater?


    Brie

    Re -- German vs. English terms


    I have the "official" manuals somewhere in two languages, I'll do my best and make a list of part names in German and English. If I say "flamethrower" people understand what I mean, but the proper term would be "rapid preheater".


    I've been confusing some terms already -- English is not my first language either, that would be Dutch -- "gasmantle" in English is "Gluehstrumpfe" in German, and not Mantel. When in doubt, it might be better to talk by numbers and just refer to the numbers given on the schematic.


    Arno

    All petromax valves contain rubber gaskets, but if they survive benzine as a fuel (the use of benzine is possible, see discussions in other threads) they could perhaps cope with other solvents, too. The only plastic parts seems to be the vapourizer wheel, the pump knob and sometimes - e.g. in Bundeswehr 500 HKs - the preheater lever. Nevertheless I would remove all endangered parts before. Sodium hydroxide also dissolves aluminium, e.g. the type label on the cage (hi Joern :P ).
    How does the upper tip of the rod inside the vapourizer look like? After removing the nozzle (and the old needle) you should see a female screw thread.
    The preheater filter part is screwed onto the tube and the tube should be screwed into the upper part, too. Especially the latter one is usually very tight so you need forceps.
    The pressure for starting should be about 2 (as stated above) or even less (1.5), just try it. You can release pressure simply by opening the manometer screw a bit.


    Regards,



    Aladdin

    :megaphon: Tilley X246-Ersatzteil 707 (Spigot) gesucht!